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Calvary Chapel and Hank Hanegraaff - 10/19/2009 1:27:20 PM
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richartrod
Posts: 189
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I have a question: Have the Calvary Chapel churches snubbed or turned against Hank Hanegraaff, host of the "Bible Answer Man" radio show, because of his book "The Apocalypse Code" (2007) or his openly amillenialist views of endtimes prophecy?
I attended a CC church in the late 90's, and while I no longer believe in a pre-millenial rapture (more on that later), I have the utmost respect for founder Chuck Smith and the movement's chapter-and-verse teaching of the Bible from Genesis to Revelation. After drifting into liberal theology and almost into atheism during my college days, I came back to the biblical faith through Hank Hanegraaff's radio program and his intellectual defense of the faith once and for all delivered unto the saints (Jude 3). Hank attended Smith's church in Costa Mesa, CA for several years and both supported each other through thick and thin.
But then Hank became alarmed about the wild predictions made by some prophecy pundits about the Y2K bug, prompting him to write "The Millennium Bug Debugged" (1999), which I consider a great read. The way he rightfully exposed characters like Chuck Missler, Don McIlvany and Grant Jeffrey, I started suspecting he didn't believe in a "Left Behind"-style rapture or a literal millenial reign following Christ's return. It was confirmed in 2004 when he went public on it with his fictional book "The Last Disciple" and his very public war of words with Tim LaHaye.
I was very embarrassed by both Hank and LaHaye in how they attacked each other over the airwaves and Christian magazines, very much like the way Rosie O'Donnell and Donald Trump were trashing each other at the same time in the secular world. It was very immature and made the subject of eschatology look like a joke.
And then along came "The Apocalypse Code", where Hank fully explained and defended his endtimes views. Chuck Smith co-authored a response called "Breaking the Apocalypse Code", defending the Rapture from an intellectual, scholarly view. Hank was no longer mentioned on Calvary's radio shows "To Every Man an Answer" or "Pastor's Perspective". Calvary Chapel Golden Springs in Diamond Bar, CA (led by Raul Ries), which used to prominently display Hank's books, removed them all and replaced them with "Breaking the Apocalypse Code." And if Hank is mentioned by CC at all, it's in a very negative light.
I used to be a rapture believer, but that began to change around 1999 when I saw churches and ministries getting swept up into the Y2K hyteria and all the wild predictions allegedly based on Scripture itself or so called geopolitical research. Hank was a lone voice of calm in cutting through all the hype. When January 1, 2000 finally came and went, and all the lights stayed on, I started asking, "If Chuck Missler, Hal Lindsey et al were so wrong about Y2K, what else have they lied about?"
At the same time I was reading straight through the Bible for myself, and in reading the Old Testament prophets, I came to the conviction that most of the prophecies were concerning the Jewish 70-year exile into Babylon, its return to the Promised Land under the Persians, and the promised Messiah. So without either side of the rapture debate pulling me every which way, I became an amillenialist because it made the most sense based on Scripture itself, especially in comparison to the constant resetting of dates, places and guessing who the Antichrist might be (if he may be alive today) by the other side.
So back to my question: Has Calvary Chapel now considered Hank Hanegraaff a false teacher, a heretic, persona non grata or in danger of being "Left Behind" himself because of his change of view on endtimes interpretation, or most likely, because of the way he has vigorously defended it? I really hope not, because believers can debate over eschatology but need not divide or break fellowship over it, which makes for a bad witness to a nonbelieving world. And it seems that CC is treating Hank like the proverbial elephant in the sanctuary that they refuse to acknowledge exists.
I look forward to your feedback, especially from other CC pastors and church members.
Rich Rodriguez
West Covina, CA
2 Cor 1:3-5
Church: Immanuel First Lutheran, West Covina, CA
www.immanuelfirst.org
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RE: Calvary Chapel and Hank Hanegraaff - 10/19/2009 6:06:04 PM
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Gloryandgrace
Posts: 839
Joined: 1/15/2006
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Its really hard to say what the real bottom line is for Hank on being on CSN or in CC churches. I know they are passive aggressive when it comes to
preachers they disagree with. They will not openly black ball a preacher, but they will backdoor resist him. They use Bryson to hammer on the calvies and they try to stay away from terminologies that are contraversial. Not that they will ever agree with you on calvinism or on amillenialism, but they want to put on the face of 'nice christian' while preaching against you.
The calvary chapel ministry is a tremendous work of God, but they are not without their issues too and God help us all, we need one another.
John
_____________________________
Isa 42:6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles.....
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RE: Calvary Chapel and Hank Hanegraaff - 10/19/2009 7:57:19 PM
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Intrepidus
Posts: 104
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Richartrod,
That's a really good question. The Bible Answerman program, after running for more than a dozen years, was recently taken off the air by a local Christian radio station. That station is run primarily by Calvary Chapel members, and several of its other programs are done by Calvary Chapel pastors. I had not put the two together until you posed the question. I don't want to indulge in conspiracy theories (at least not too much), but the rift you suppose above would certainly explain the abrupt disappearance of Hank Hanegraaff from the line-up.
In Christ,
-Intrepidus
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RE: Calvary Chapel and Hank Hanegraaff - 10/19/2009 8:28:53 PM
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richartrod
Posts: 189
Joined: 4/21/2009
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Gloryandgrace
Its really hard to say what the real bottom line is for Hank on being on CSN or in CC churches. I know they are passive aggressive when it comes to
preachers they disagree with. They will not openly black ball a preacher, but they will backdoor resist him. They use Bryson to hammer on the calvies and they try to stay away from terminologies that are contraversial. Not that they will ever agree with you on calvinism or on amillenialism, but they want to put on the face of 'nice christian' while preaching against you.
The calvary chapel ministry is a tremendous work of God, but they are not without their issues too and God help us all, we need one another.
John
That is true; CC pastors from Chuck Smith on down will not openly criticize or attack another pastor or ministry unless it is openly and brazenly teaching rank heresy, as Chuck has done in the past about portions of the Vineyard churches that went nuts on signs and wonders, Word of Faith preachers, and liberal churches supporting anti-conservative causes. (To its credit, the Vineyard enacted some controversial but badly-needed reforms after Hank's book "Counterfeit Revival" [1997] exposed those heresies.)
Smith, affectionately called "Pastor Chuck" within and outside of CC, has also admitted to having a very short temper in his early days, mostly over very few souls getting saved and no church growth, and it still comes out once in a while from the pulpit concerning certain issues, but he says the Lord convicted him big-time early on of that sin and he's become much mellower.
Part of CC's statement of beliefs reads as thus: "We believe that the only true basis of Christian fellowship is His (Agape) love, which is greater than any differences we possess and without which we have no right to claim ourselves Christians."
source: http://www.calvarychapelcostamesa.com/pages/aboutus
As for the movement as a whole quietly snubbing Hank Hanegraaff, that's the question I'm still seeking an answer for.
I have friends who are CC members with whom I've shared my amillenialst beliefs, and we have never come to shouting matches, fistfights or gunshots, neither have I had to pull knives out of my back. They may think I'm mistaken on my amilennialism, and me the same on their rapturism, but it's really a secondary issue not core to our salvation or worth as followers of Christ.
Whether it's open hostility or passive-agressiveness, it's really sad some Christians will break friendships, family ties or church affiliations over this issue. And I believe Hank and LaHaye's past war or words over it has added fuel to the fire.
As for Calvary Chapel itself, unfortunately some Christians will disregard it or blow it off simply because it was born in CALIFORNIA... you know, Satan's Country, the Left Coast, the Land of Fruits and Nuts, where marijuana is medicinal, where half the state seceded over gay marriage, and so forth. As the kids in your youth group might say, what-EVER...
Any more feedback? I'm open to it all.
Rich Rodriguez
West Covina, CA
2 Cor 1:3-5
< Message edited by richartrod -- 10/20/2009 2:05:41 AM >
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RE: Calvary Chapel and Hank Hanegraaff - 10/19/2009 11:29:11 PM
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ManimalX
Posts: 2546
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: online
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Why should anyone be declared heretic or in danger of being left behind for their views on eschatology?
Eschatology has nothing to do with a person's salvation.
I think Hank is wrong, but there are a lot of good reasons for taking an amilliennial position and many intelligent, loving Christians hold that view.
Also, CC is an awesome church, and I have learned extensively from many of their pastors.
_____________________________
"And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth." - 2nd Timothy 2:24,25
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RE: Calvary Chapel and Hank Hanegraaff - 10/19/2009 11:33:14 PM
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Intrepidus
Posts: 104
Joined: 10/7/2009
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quote:
ORIGINAL: manimalx
Why should anyone be declared heretic or in danger of being left behind for their views on eschatology?
Eschatology has nothing to do with a person's salvation.
Amen.
quote:
I think Hank is wrong, but there are a lot of good reasons for taking an amilliennial position and many intelligent, loving Christians hold that view.
I don't know about the intelligent part, but I'm an amillenialist as well. 
-Intrepidus
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RE: Calvary Chapel and Hank Hanegraaff - 10/20/2009 2:17:24 AM
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richartrod
Posts: 189
Joined: 4/21/2009
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Intrepidus
Richartrod,
That's a really good question. The Bible Answerman program, after running for more than a dozen years, was recently taken off the air by a local Christian radio station. That station is run primarily by Calvary Chapel members, and several of its other programs are done by Calvary Chapel pastors. I had not put the two together until you posed the question. I don't want to indulge in conspiracy theories (at least not too much), but the rift you suppose above would certainly explain the abrupt disappearance of Hank Hanegraaff from the line-up.
In Christ,
-Intrepidus
Intrepidus,
I don't know about the radio station you are referring to, but the Christian Research Institute had to yank "The Bible Answer Man" off the air in several cities earlier this year because of a drop in donations, including its longtime flagship station KKLA-FM here in Los Angeles and other big stations owned by Salem Communications, which also owns Crosswalk. It continues to air on Salem properties OnePlace.com and FaithTalk Radio network, the latter carried by Sirius XM.
The drop in donations could either because of the recession hitting ministries hard all over, retaliation for positions Hank has taken like amilennialism, or both.
I used to work at Calvary Chapel flagship station KWVE-FM in the late 90's and never knew the staff there talking stink about Hank or other ministries with beliefs different from CC doctrine (see Chuck Smith's book "Calvary Chapel Distinctives" to learn about their doctrinal stands). They still don't.
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RE: Calvary Chapel and Hank Hanegraaff - 10/20/2009 2:44:23 AM
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richartrod
Posts: 189
Joined: 4/21/2009
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quote:
ORIGINAL: manimalx
Why should anyone be declared heretic or in danger of being left behind for their views on eschatology?
Eschatology has nothing to do with a person's salvation.
I agree, but I have personally met some people who are so militant about their beliefs on a pre-millenial rapture that anyone who disagrees with them either has a demon spirit of division within them or has flipped their noodle. On Hank's show his co-author on "The Last Disciple" (2004) said his wife, a Southern Baptist, went ballistic over learning about the amillenial view because she was taught the "Left Behind" model was the only true interpretation of prophecy and all others were held by heretics or backsliders.
quote:
ORIGINAL: manimalx
I think Hank is wrong, but there are a lot of good reasons for taking an amilliennial position and many intelligent, loving Christians hold that view.
Also, CC is an awesome church, and I have learned extensively from many of their pastors.
I too agree that Calvary Chapel is an awesome church; it brought back expositional preaching and its members get solidly grounded on God's Word. I continue to learn from pastors like Greg Laurie, Damien Kyle and ol' Chuck Smith himself. I recommitted by life to Christ at Greg's Harvest Crusade back in 1996. But if the movement is snubbing Hank, that ain't good. While CC is a good church, like all churches, even the best ones, it is led by pastors who are imperfect and prone to sinful attitudes, just like you and me. And we are all sinners saved by grace, not by good works, or else we'd be lost forever (Romans 3:9-20).
It is by grace through faith in Christ that we are saved unto salvation, regardless of our eschatology. And that, to quote one of Smith's books, is "why grace changes everything".
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RE: Calvary Chapel and Hank Hanegraaff - 10/20/2009 7:00:22 AM
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ManimalX
Posts: 2546
Joined: 10/25/2005
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Just today I noticed that the Bible Answer Man, who has been on at 6:00 PM every day for... well, years, is no longer on. Rather than attribute this to some conspiracy, I consider the way that Hank has been nearly begging for money for quite a while. Folks around here just didn't care for his program, didn't support it, and it is no longer on the air. Did it have something to do with Hank's militant march into amillennialism? Almost certainly. He has a lot of good things to say, but in my opinion he went a bit overboard in his eschatological emphasis.
Please note that I love Hank. He as well as several other Christian apologists were key to my re-embracing of my Christian faith. He should have stuck with what he did best: answer Bible questions and even providing some of the differing viewpoints.
Re: CC: Two of the CC churches in my area have radio programming on local Christian radio. Ed Taylor from CC of Aurora and Gino Geraci of CC of south Denver (who has his own daily two hour call-in program just like Bible Answer Man, only more balanced) are excellent Bible teachers.
_____________________________
"And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth." - 2nd Timothy 2:24,25
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RE: Calvary Chapel and Hank Hanegraaff - 10/20/2009 6:12:44 PM
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tsnody2001
Posts: 324
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From: Terre Haute, IN
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I know this a bit off topic, but I thought Hank was planning on releasing a third book in the "Last Disciple" series. Is that true?
_____________________________
Until He Returns (Rev. 2:17),
Travis
During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. ~George Orwell
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RE: Calvary Chapel and Hank Hanegraaff - 11/7/2009 2:56:18 PM
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richartrod
Posts: 189
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There have been no other posts to this thread since the initial wave, so I am unsubscribing from it and will no longer check for new posts.
In parting, I believe that splits, fights, divisions and resentments among Christians over different views of eschatology (the end times) are horrible. This is a secondary issue that is not part of our salvation, nor does holding to one particular endtime view make you a true Christian. That is my conviction as a believer who used to believe in millennialism and a pre-tribulation rapture but abandoned both for amillennialism after reading the Old Testament prophets for myself. My opening post explains in detail how and why I came to that conclusion.
I may be reached via my Crosswalk email if you wish to discuss this further, as I believe this issue is apparently not even on the totem pole compared to other ones.
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RE: Calvary Chapel and Hank Hanegraaff - 11/13/2009 12:02:54 AM
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agapeflight
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I was shocked when I found out how dogmatic Cavlary Chapel is on pre-trib. The red flag was huge. Then I found out that they believe the pastor is the ultimate authority in the local church and there is not higher church work than the local church (supposedly.) so I am not surprised. I am waiting for someone to confess that they all secretly believe that Chuck Smith is the 12th apostle.
I am serious. Hanegraaf, I'm not sure about him either, but I would not be surprised if Calvary Chapel ends up spinning off a few cultic cells before the Lord returns. Some of the guys that preach their are among the bes tin the world but some of them seem to be fudging the numbers quite a bit. I see alot of the residue of the 60's Jesus movement still in place.
I hope that some of the criticism that is rising will be a help to them before they get too rigid.
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RE: Calvary Chapel and Hank Hanegraaff - 11/13/2009 9:17:00 PM
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Reform_Dave
Posts: 312
Joined: 6/14/2009
From: Where the mountains touch the sky.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: agapeflight
I was shocked when I found out how dogmatic Cavlary Chapel is on pre-trib. The red flag was huge. Then I found out that they believe the pastor is the ultimate authority in the local church and there is not higher church work than the local church (supposedly.) so I am not surprised. I am waiting for someone to confess that they all secretly believe that Chuck Smith is the 12th apostle.
I am serious. Hanegraaf, I'm not sure about him either, but I would not be surprised if Calvary Chapel ends up spinning off a few cultic cells before the Lord returns. Some of the guys that preach their are among the bes tin the world but some of them seem to be fudging the numbers quite a bit. I see alot of the residue of the 60's Jesus movement still in place.
I hope that some of the criticism that is rising will be a help to them before they get too rigid.
Having had attended a CC for a short while i agree with your sense of it. Chuck smith seems to enjoy a sort of demigod status among the CCers. I do admit that i enjoyed watching several CC pastors twist themselves in knots to avoid letting the bible say what it says concerning certain doctrines, the book of Romans being the most enjoyable, and yes the Left behind type of rapture theory is non-negotiable there.
_____________________________
Soli Deo Gloria.
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RE: Calvary Chapel and Hank Hanegraaff - 11/13/2009 11:59:48 PM
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agapeflight
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Yeah I just had to pull back from a small CC. The pastor was nice enough ubt I got the distinct sense that he was the church. I hope that is not true but it seemed to me that I would have ended uo needing to be reprogrammed to fit in his supposedly very loving and tolerant ministry.
It's too bad. My wife and I just love Greg Laurie. I listen to CSN and find alot of good teaching there, but then there are those guys who are the center of their own Christian universe and it just turns my stomach.
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RE: Calvary Chapel and Hank Hanegraaff - 11/14/2009 1:02:33 AM
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agapeflight
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http://www.rickross.com/reference/calvary/calvaryvisitor.html
A link I found. I'm sure every denomination has alot of disgruntleds floating around out there but there does seem to be a pattern in these reports.
CC is partly a new work from the 60's but it is really more like and offshoot of 4 Square that merged with the Jesus Movement.
I'm pretty stunned at the perspective I am getting of this whole thing. I agree on probably 98% of all the doctrine I have heard from CC and yet if these reports of pastoral tyranny are true they have some serious leadership problems that are only going to get worse because their teaching about authority and church governance is not Scriptural. And I have heard it said that this fruit comes right form Chuck Smith who broke away from 4 Square by refusing to recognize their leadership.
May the Lord have mercy on them and lead them back. May He grant them to purge the control freaks from their leadership and return to accountibility and fellowship with the rest of the Christians.
All who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. (The Apostle Paul)
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