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All flesh or only the saved

 
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All flesh or only the saved - 10/29/2009 10:54:11 AM   
gmcspice


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Joel 2:28-30 (King James Version)

28And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

29And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

Acts 2:17-19 (King James Version)

17And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

18And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:



Do these verses mean that God poured out his Spirit on all flesh or just the saved?

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RE: All flesh or only the saved - 10/29/2009 12:25:07 PM   
Bluethread


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quote:

ORIGINAL: gmcspice

Joel 2:28-30 (King James Version)

28And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

29And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

Acts 2:17-19 (King James Version)

17And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

18And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:



Do these verses mean that God poured out his Spirit on all flesh or just the saved?


First it is my view that Peter was not saying that the events that took place at the Shavuot(Pentecost) feast that year was the one and only thing that was being spoken of by Joel. I contend that he was saying the that event was an example of what Joel was talking about. Therefore, it need not be a perfect fit.

Now, in context, Joel is not differentiating between the saved and the unsaved. I believe he is speaking to the idea of who is prone to be receptive to Adonai's Spirit. It has been a common misconception among the children of Israel that since Adonai has selected them to be a chosen nation, only the decendants of Yacov(Jacob) have access to Adonai's Spirit. I say this is a misconception because we have records of Adonai working among individuals in the nations.

In that context, Joel is saying Adonai will make it clear that He is indeed Adonai by pouring out His Spirit on all flesh, not just the descendents of Yacov, who dwelt in the land. The events of the Shavuot feast Peter was preaching at is an example of that. There was a mixed multitude gathered for the feast from many nations, no doubt "god-fearing" gentiles as well as jews. It was amazing to the jews who were living in the land that people outside the land would have access to Adonai. As I stated before, this was a misconception. Nothing in the Scriptures says that Adonai's Spirit was ever not available to anybody regardless of nationality.

< Message edited by Bluethread -- 10/29/2009 12:32:45 PM >


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RE: All flesh or only the saved - 10/29/2009 12:42:34 PM   
gmcspice


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Thank you Bluethread !!
I thought that was what God was talking about. Now, I am wondering why certain denominations believe they and only they were chosen to receive it when God says this and Peter reiterated it. Also, the Jews witnessed it.
How is that they got this misconconception?
Wasn't is witnessed in the up room when the Holy Spirit fell on all those people? I am refering to Acts chapter 2. Surely we can all come to one accord that anyone who answers to the Holy Spirit being poured out on their flesh becomes part of God's people right?
And how is it that doctrine has become so twisted to, at some extent, not include whosoever will can come to God? Don't these passages contradict that particular doctrine?

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RE: All flesh or only the saved - 10/29/2009 12:49:40 PM   
rcjames


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The New Testament is very plain that only those who believe in Jeus Christ are the children of God.

So I would consider that only those believers in Christ would have the Spirit poured out on them as evidenced in Acts 2.

Thanks
RC

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RE: All flesh or only the saved - 10/29/2009 1:06:40 PM   
gmcspice


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quote:

rcjames Date 10/29/2009 12:49:40 PM
The New Testament is very plain that only those who believe in Jesus Christ are the children of God.

So I would consider that only those believers in Christ would have the Spirit poured out on them as evidenced in Acts 2.

Thanks
RC


I thought the New testament says that those who abide in Christ and Christ abides in them are the Children of God?
Isn't this entirely different that the Holy Spirit being poured out on all flesh?
It is my understanding that All flesh can be moved by the Holy Spirit but not all receive it into them becoming Partakers of Christ. Not receiving the Holys Spirit would be blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, right?
Doesn't Jesus say that if we repent and believe then the Holy Spirit will come to live in us and we in Him?
And doesn't God reign over the just and the unjust?
Edited because I can't spell

< Message edited by gmcspice -- 10/29/2009 1:12:49 PM >


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RE: All flesh or only the saved - 10/29/2009 1:15:50 PM   
rcjames


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quote:

ORIGINAL: gmcspice

quote:

rcjames Date 10/29/2009 12:49:40 PM
The New Testament is very plain that only those who believe in Jesus Christ are the children of God.

So I would consider that only those believers in Christ would have the Spirit poured out on them as evidenced in Acts 2.

Thanks
RC


I thought the New testament says that those who abide in Christ and Christ abides in them are the Children of God?


If one Believes in Christ then they will abide in Christ and Christ will abide in them, and yes they will be the Children of God.

As for the rest of the post; you are cettainly entitled to believe what you will.

Thanks
RC

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RE: All flesh or only the saved - 10/29/2009 1:23:31 PM   
LCannon


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Peter alluded to Joel as an instance of fulfillment of this prophecy. Most(all?)prophecies can be viewed present(this age), future either in blessing or judgment but certainty will be fulfilled Eternity future that will be complete. For example, crossing Red Sea was a metaphor for immediate deliverance, remembrance of past deliverance and is(was)the promise of future deliverance. Peter's reminding of Joel's promise is thus. The moment was ripe for reminding but implied, later, this promise was even more significant when the church under when persecution and purging.

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RE: All flesh or only the saved - 10/29/2009 1:25:10 PM   
gmcspice


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quote:

As for the rest of the post; you are certainly entitled to believe what you will.

Thanks
RC

So, you don't believe that the Holy Spirit is accessible to all mankind if they just believe it and receive it?
Why else would God pour out his Spirit on ALL mankind like he states in the scripture I asked about?

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RE: All flesh or only the saved - 10/29/2009 1:28:46 PM   
gmcspice


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quote:

The moment was ripe for reminding but implied, later, this promise was even more significant when the church under when persecution and purging.


Can you expound on how this applies to the verses?
How does God's pouring out his spirit on all flesh connect with the persecution of the Church?
I am thinking that God gives us favor with man when we are in HIS will, but I need clarification because I don't want to assume anything.

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RE: All flesh or only the saved - 10/29/2009 1:36:53 PM   
Bluethread


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quote:

ORIGINAL: gmcspice

quote:

rcjames Date 10/29/2009 12:49:40 PM
The New Testament is very plain that only those who believe in Jesus Christ are the children of God.

So I would consider that only those believers in Christ would have the Spirit poured out on them as evidenced in Acts 2.

Thanks
RC


I thought the New testament says that those who abide in Christ and Christ abides in them are the Children of God?
Isn't this entirely different that the Holy Spirit being poured out on all flesh?
It is my understanding that All flesh can be moved by the Holy Spirit but not all receive it into them becoming Partakers of Christ. Not receiving the Holys Spirit would be blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, right?
Doesn't Jesus say that if we repent and believe then the Holy Spirit will come to live in us and we in Him?
And doesn't God reign over the just and the unjust?
Edited because I can't spell


I think you are right on here. In fact, I believe that is how it has always been even before Yeshua came in the flesh and even before Joel's revelation regarding the later days. Adonai's Spirit has been available to all of Adam's children, but not all have accepted that Spirit.

Regarding your question of how they got this misconconception. They, or I should say we, because we are all subject to this, believed the lie of the adversary in the garden. "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God . . ." The implication of this is that one becomes somehow better than others. The prophets repeatedly tell us, (De 9:6) "Understand, then, that it is not because of your righteousness that the Lord your God is giving you this good land to possess, for you are a stiff-necked people." Do we take this to heart, generally not. We say, "Those silly jews, didn't they know that it is only people who believe (fill in the blank) are eligable for Adonai's blessings. Those blessings are available because Adonai kept The Promise by providing Yeshua as The Sacrifice and one must acknowledge this to have eturnal life. However it is submission to Adonai that makes them effective, not any particular belief we may hold with regard to being blessed.

< Message edited by Bluethread -- 10/29/2009 1:50:09 PM >


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RE: All flesh or only the saved - 10/30/2009 10:36:42 PM   
drmark

 

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quote:

So, you don't believe that the Holy Spirit is accessible to all mankind if they just believe it and receive it?
Why else would God pour out his Spirit on ALL mankind like he states in the scripture I asked about?
Intriguing concept, spice. I had not thought of these verses used as support for prevenient grace before now, but it surely does make some sense in the big picture. However, the "traditional" understanding of Acts 2 is definitely related to so-called charismatic doctrine in most Protestant circles that I'm familiar with.

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RE: All flesh or only the saved - 10/31/2009 9:08:31 PM   
GrahamCracker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: gmcspice

Do these verses mean that God poured out his Spirit on all flesh or just the saved?


This is called hyperbole, an intentional exaggeration not meant to be taken literally. We do the same things in English. Here are some examples:

"I have been working all day." (All day, really, allll daaay??)

"Everybody came to the party."

"Everyone and his brother are out driving around today."

"No one does any work around here."

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RE: All flesh or only the saved - 11/1/2009 5:56:05 AM   
gmcspice


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quote:

GrahamCracker Date 10/31/2009 9:08:31 PM
quote:

ORIGINAL: gmcspice

Do these verses mean that God poured out his Spirit on all flesh or just the saved?


This is called hyperbole, an intentional exaggeration not meant to be taken literally. We do the same things in English. Here are some examples:

"I have been working all day." (All day, really, allll daaay??)

"Everybody came to the party."

"Everyone and his brother are out driving around today."

"No one does any work around here."


Graham, God is not us! He doesn't deal in hyperbole's, God deals in truth. When God says all flesh, it is my understanding he means it.
Like I said earlier, these verses lead me to believe that the Holy Spirit is available to anyone who believes(faith) Christ IS. I say Christ is because there are so many things that he is just too many to put down.
What leads me to believe this is the very defined act of Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
A person born again has not committed this act because the Holy Spirit called they heard and accepted. The one not born again can commit it because the Holy Spirit calls ALL to repent but not all obey therefore committing Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
How would Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit exist if it were not possible? through a hyperbole perhaps?

< Message edited by gmcspice -- 11/1/2009 6:02:11 AM >


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RE: All flesh or only the saved - 11/1/2009 8:45:25 AM   
GrahamCracker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: gmcspice

quote:

GrahamCracker Date 10/31/2009 9:08:31 PM
quote:

ORIGINAL: gmcspice

Do these verses mean that God poured out his Spirit on all flesh or just the saved?


This is called hyperbole, an intentional exaggeration not meant to be taken literally. We do the same things in English. Here are some examples:

"I have been working all day." (All day, really, allll daaay??)

"Everybody came to the party."

"Everyone and his brother are out driving around today."

"No one does any work around here."


Graham, God is not us! He doesn't deal in hyperbole's, God deals in truth.

They are mutually exclusive? Doesn't God deal in symbolism? If He deals in symbolism, then why not hyperbole? I don't remember if you commented in the thread "Is the Bible 100% Literally True?" Both hyperbole and symbolism came up in that thread.

quote:

He doesn't deal in hyperbole's


You know this exactly how? Tell you want, it might be better to take this up in the thread entitled "Is the Bible 100% literally true?"

quote:

When God says all flesh, it is my understanding he means it.
Like I said earlier, these verses lead me to believe that the Holy Spirit is available to anyone who believes(faith) Christ IS. I say Christ is because there are so many things that he is just too many to put down.
What leads me to believe this is the very defined act of Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
A person born again has not committed this act because the Holy Spirit called they heard and accepted. The one not born again can commit it because the Holy Spirit calls ALL to repent but not all obey therefore committing Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
How would Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit exist if it were not possible? through a hyperbole perhaps?

Hyperbole is not blasphemy of the HS. Language is very flexible and God speaks to us in human language. If we cannot recognize hyperbole spoken by God then we are going to have some problems with interpretation.

I agree that the HS is available to everyone who trusts in Christ. It should be obvious that some of the people during the time of apostles died without believing. Those who died without believing did not receive the HS, obviously. Therefore, it is clear that it did not apply to everyone without exclusion.

< Message edited by GrahamCracker -- 11/1/2009 9:32:46 AM >


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RE: All flesh or only the saved - 11/1/2009 10:26:25 AM   
pabrain

 

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Thank you gmcspice for your question.

Biblical prophesy can have more than one fulfillment, and in order to avoid confusion all verses of Scripture must be read within their context.

At Joel 2:28, the word, "afterward", indicates that the, "pouring out of my spirit", will occur after what is described in the preceding verses of Ch 2 have taken place, and they are all still future.

Peter, however, in Acts 2 is using these verses to describe what was happening at that time.

Hope this helps.

Every blessing.

Edwin.
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RE: All flesh or only the saved - 11/1/2009 11:07:54 AM   
gmcspice


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Graham,
I didn't say that blasphemy of the holy spirit was a hyperbole, I ask you if what I stated about the Holy Spirit weren't true, then WHY do we have Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit?
God did pour out His spirit on all flesh- BY JESUS CHRIST!
Are you saying God only created some to be saved and that the rest are forgotten?
Are you saying that the Holy Spirit was not given to save all mankind(not saying all mankind WILL be saved, but that ALL mankind is given the opportunity)?
Doesn't Jesus say he died for the sins of the world?
Or just the sins of who you think he chooses?
Like I said, if the Holy Spirit weren't meant for all flesh, the why do we have Blasphemy of Holy Spirit?
irresistible grace says that when the Holy Spirit falls on your flesh to condemn you of sin, you can't resist accepting God therefore making God as one who forces man to accept when the Bible doesn't say God is like that at all. If irresistible grace were truth, then there would be no blasphemy of the Holy Spirit and God didn't mean he poured out his spirit on all flesh, but this is not what God says.
I believe that what I see here is truth. God did literally mean in these passages that he poured out his Spirit on all flesh. It isn't a hyperbole. The proof is in the ability to commit Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. God does reign over the just and the unjust, does he not?

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RE: All flesh or only the saved - 11/1/2009 12:16:30 PM   
Bluethread


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GrahamCracker

I agree that the HS is available to everyone who trusts in Christ. It should be obvious that some of the people during the time of apostles died without believing. Those who died without believing did not receive the HS, obviously. Therefore, it is clear that it did not apply to everyone without exclusion.


This is speculation. I see no reason why Adonai did not impart His Spirit to those who believed in The Promise before the details of the The Promise were made clear.

quote:

ORIGINAL: pabrain

At Joel 2:28, the word, "afterward", indicates that the, "pouring out of my spirit", will occur after what is described in the preceding verses of Ch 2 have taken place, and they are all still future.


Joel speaks of an outpouring not the outpouring. The latter is doctrine. There need not be just one outpouring of Adonai's Spirit. Many evangelicals have refered to various "revivals" as outpourings of Adonai's Spirit. Joel speaks of an invasion of locust. Now this can be seen as an analogy. However, please tell me what took place just before the Shavuot speech of Peter that relates to this passage which is to happen before the outpouring Joel speaks of (Joel 2:19-20) "The Lord will reply to them: "I am sending you grain, new wine and oil, enough to satisfy you fully; never again will I make you an object of scorn to the nations. "I will drive the northern army far from you, pushing it into a parched and barren land, with its front columns going into the eastern sea and those in the rear into the western sea. And its stench will go up; its smell will rise." Surely he has done great things." That is why I believe when Peter says, (Acts 2:16) "this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:", he is talking about the type of event not the one and only thing that Joel was speaking of. To insist that Adonai only poured His Spirit out on and maybe after that Shavuot is to practice the same elitist view that many of the Jew held when they heard Peters speech. Adonai is not a respector of persons. To say that those who lived after that Shavuot had a greater access to Adonai's Spirit than did those before is saying that Adonai is a respector of persons based on when they lived.

< Message edited by Bluethread -- 11/1/2009 1:28:27 PM >


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RE: All flesh or only the saved - 11/1/2009 12:35:10 PM   
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gmcspice - are you suggesting that everyone - Christians, non-Christians, Satanists, etc. - will dream dreams, see visions, etc.?

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RE: All flesh or only the saved - 11/1/2009 2:52:51 PM   
GrahamCracker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: gmcspice

Graham,
I didn't say that blasphemy of the holy spirit was a hyperbole, I ask you if what I stated about the Holy Spirit weren't true, then WHY do we have Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit?


Sorry if I misunderstood you. But frankly, I must have missed something. The blasphemy of the HS occurs in at least two ways, maybe more. The Greek word for blasphemy refers to either slander or evil speaking. If someone speaks in an evil manner about God, attributing some moral evil or sin to Him, then they are blaspheming Him. Resisting the HS is not necessarily blasphemy.

Perhaps you can use the above statement to clarify yourself. It occurs to me that you might be saying that if it did not mean all persons without exclusion, then we would be saying something about the HS that was not true. Is that your meaning?

quote:

Are you saying God only created some to be saved and that the rest are forgotten?
Are you saying that the Holy Spirit was not given to save all mankind(not saying all mankind WILL be saved, but that ALL mankind is given the opportunity)?

No.
quote:

Doesn't Jesus say he died for the sins of the world?
Or just the sins of who you think he chooses? ...irresistible grace says that when the Holy Spirit falls on your flesh to condemn you of sin, you can't resist accepting God therefore making God as one who forces man to accept when the Bible doesn't say God is like that at all. If irresistible grace were truth, then there would be no blasphemy of the Holy Spirit and God didn't mean he poured out his spirit on all flesh, but this is not what God says.

Just to be clear, I am not Calvinist. Does that help? It is possible for anyone without exclusion to have salvation through Christ. If they do not believe it is because they don't want to. God's HS convicts those who resist and those who believe alike.
quote:

I believe that what I see here is truth. God did literally mean in these passages that he poured out his Spirit on all flesh. It isn't a hyperbole. The proof is in the ability to commit Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. God does reign over the just and the unjust, does he not?


"Pouring out His Spirit upon [so and so]" refers to those who have received His HS. If they were not saved, they didn't receive His HS. "Your sons and your daughters will prophecy..." That is in the next section of the verse, Acts 2:17.

Nonliteralism occurs throughout scripture. It is not just hyperbole, there are metaphors, similes, anthropomorphisms, and many others.

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RE: All flesh or only the saved - 11/2/2009 8:15:48 AM   
gmcspice


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quote:

ta_mosquito Date 11/1/2009 12:35:10 PM
gmcspice - are you suggesting that everyone - Christians, non-Christians, Satanists, etc. - will dream dreams, see visions, etc.?


Well, God says he is in control of all things and uses all things for HIS glory. He influenced Pharaoh, and many other "bad guys" in the Bible to carry out HIS will.

So, It is possible.
But as for what I was really asking was is every person able to access the Holy Spirit since it was poured out on all flesh? I have seen way too many think only they have access to it and I believe these passages show that what they believe is false.

quote:

"Pouring out His Spirit upon [so and so]" refers to those who have received His HS. If they were not saved, they didn't receive His HS.


Isn't that assuming? It doesn't say anything about receiving the Holy Spirit within them. It says that the Holy Spirit was poured out on their flesh and they dreamed dreams and prophesied. This is also what has me believing that God can use whomever he wishes to fulfill his will. I believe that he can change anyone since God has no respect of persons. He can take the worst person on the planet and change them.

quote:

The blasphemy of the HS occurs in at least two ways, maybe more. The Greek word for blasphemy refers to either slander or evil speaking. If someone speaks in an evil manner about God, attributing some moral evil or sin to Him, then they are blaspheming Him. Resisting the HS is not necessarily blasphemy.

Perhaps you can use the above statement to clarify yourself. It occurs to me that you might be saying that if it did not mean all persons without exclusion, then we would be saying something about the HS that was not true. Is that your meaning?


This I agree with. So, it looks to me like we believe the same things. That the Holy Spirit is accessible to all of man if they would stand still, be quiet and listen.

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RE: All flesh or only the saved - 11/2/2009 9:01:29 PM   
GrahamCracker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: gmcspice
quote:

"Pouring out His Spirit upon [so and so]" refers to those who have received His HS. If they were not saved, they didn't receive His HS.


Isn't that assuming? It doesn't say anything about receiving the Holy Spirit within them. It says that the Holy Spirit was poured out on their flesh and they dreamed dreams and prophesied. This is also what has me believing that God can use whomever he wishes to fulfill his will. I believe that he can change anyone since God has no respect of persons. He can take the worst person on the planet and change them.

No.

Acts 1:5 "...you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."

Verse 15. "this [the HS] is what was spoken by the prophet Joel..."

Verse 38-39.
"...you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise [the HS] is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call."


Later, Peter says the gentiles received the HS just like the Jews did, Acts 10:47

Reflecting back, Peter interprets the events for us in Acts 11:17,
"If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to that I could withstand God?"

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Post #: 21
RE: All flesh or only the saved - 11/3/2009 2:58:31 AM   
Bluethread


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GrahamCracker

Later, Peter says the gentiles received the HS just like the Jews did, Acts 10:47

Reflecting back, Peter interprets the events for us in Acts 11:17,
"If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to that I could withstand God?"


Interesting, the gentiles received Adonai's Spirit just like the jews did. That sounds familiar to me. Now, where did I hear something like that before?

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Post #: 22
RE: All flesh or only the saved - 11/3/2009 7:45:15 AM   
gmcspice


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quote:

No.

Acts 1:5 "...you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."

Verse 15. "this [the HS] is what was spoken by the prophet Joel..."

Verse 38-39.
"...you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise [the HS] is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call."


Later, Peter says the gentiles received the HS just like the Jews did, Acts 10:47

Reflecting back, Peter interprets the events for us in Acts 11:17,
"If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to that I could withstand God?"


Graham, I am not disagreeing with this part.
In fact I am not disagreeing with you at all.
I believe that the Holy Spirit is much BIGGER than just this. I truly believe that when God says he poured out his SPIRIT on ALL flesh, That is what he meant!
You can see it even in the world. Even though they say that they don't believe God is real, they KNOW that there is something there besides just us. Not talking about aliens either. They feel it, they search for it but can't figure it out because they are looking in all the wrong places. Every person feels the Holy Spirit move. Even in the smallest thing. That person that knows nothing about God but got into a car accident that should have killed them but they walk away with just a scratch. I mean come on, if you can't see God moving even in the world, then your eyes must be pretty closed when they shouldn't be. We should be able to see God in every situation and every aspect of HIS creation.

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Post #: 23
RE: All flesh or only the saved - 11/3/2009 4:15:11 PM   
GrahamCracker


Posts: 1590
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dallas, TX
Status: offline
quote:

Graham, I am not disagreeing with this part.
In fact I am not disagreeing with you at all.
I believe that the Holy Spirit is much BIGGER than just this. I truly believe that when God says he poured out his SPIRIT on ALL flesh, That is what he meant!
You can see it even in the world. Even though they say that they don't believe God is real, they KNOW that there is something there besides just us. Not talking about aliens either. They feel it, they search for it but can't figure it out because they are looking in all the wrong places. Every person feels the Holy Spirit move. Even in the smallest thing. That person that knows nothing about God but got into a car accident that should have killed them but they walk away with just a scratch. I mean come on, if you can't see God moving even in the world, then your eyes must be pretty closed when they shouldn't be. We should be able to see God in every situation and every aspect of HIS creation.


I agree that God works in the lives of people. But with regard to God pouring out His HS upon people that is not what we are talking about.

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Post #: 24
RE: All flesh or only the saved - 11/4/2009 7:21:43 AM   
gmcspice


Posts: 654
Joined: 12/26/2008
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quote:

But with regard to God pouring out His HS upon people that is not what we are talking about.



Actually, I am talking about God pouring out his spirit to all people making it accessible for us to be reconciled back. God pouring out his spirit to show man that the enemy is not in control of HIS creation but that God is in control of all of it. That he set Jesus over all of it.
I asked this question because certain denominations believe that the Holy Spirit is only accessible AFTER being saved. That the Holy Spirit only draws people elected by God and it was not meant for all mankind. They say that man can only be indwelled first to even ask for forgiveness. To me, these verse certainly say that it was poured out on all flesh and is accessible to all mankind if they will listen and accept Christ as the way. These verses tell me that the Holy Spirit was poured out on all flesh convicting us of our sins and calls us to repentance. It is man's choice to say yes or no to it. So, in this way, yes, God did pour out his Spirit on all flesh.

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Post #: 25
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