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A book for an atheist? - 9/10/2009 10:50:14 PM
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menendez7
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I am a physician who will be relocating after 30 years of practice at my present location. My younger colleague is a declared atheist who is (not surprisingly) a militant liberal and intellectual elitist. I wish to leave him a book that will hopefully encourage him to reassess his current radical position regarding God. Do you have any recommendations regarding which book to give? Thanks.
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RE: A book for an atheist? - 9/11/2009 12:04:32 AM
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Crushmaster
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"God Doesn't Believe In Atheists" by Ray Comfort could be a good one. I haven't read it, but Ray Comfort is a great man of God, so I am confident his book would be good.
Also, he's written a book called "You Can Lead an Atheist to Evidence, But You Can't Make Him Think". Haven't read this one either, but I'm confident as to its content.
God bless,
Crushmaster.
_____________________________
http://www.areyouagoodperson.org
(2 Corinthians 5:17) - "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."
Christ is Lord and King! To Him I give all glory and honor.
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RE: A book for an atheist? - 9/11/2009 1:02:30 AM
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bondserv65
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i do not have any specific books to recommend although i think this is a good idea. What i can recommend are some guidelines for you to accept or deny. His right to reject God and His Son and all things related to God is a right given to him by the God he rejects. That right should be respected. He is, i am assuming, american, educated and intelligent and therefore has already heard every argument supporting the existence of God. Just reiterating all of those arguments is futile. He has interests. Perhaps you know what those are, perhaps you could find out but his interest is not God. The Holy Ghost is very cool. With His guidance, you could find the book that captures his interest, respects his God given right to reject God yet still presents God in a way that is unique and intriguing. Books about the adventures of the martyrs comes to mind but i really do not know if that would be appropriate in this situation. It is just one option and The Holy Ghost is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy more creative and intelligent than i.
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RE: A book for an atheist? - 9/11/2009 10:43:28 AM
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pablos39
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Lee Strobel's books - "A Case for Christ" and "A Case for the Real Jesus". My husband wasn't an atheist but an agnostic and these books really opened his eyes up and now he believes. Praise the Lord!!!! Start with A Case for Christ.
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RE: A book for an atheist? - 9/11/2009 11:01:24 AM
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drmark
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"I Don't Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist" by Geisler and Turek is an interesting read, although I don't agree with all their Biblical interpretations of nature. God bless your efforts, menendez7, from this fellow physician!
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: A book for an atheist? - 9/11/2009 2:15:21 PM
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essentialsaltes
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Speaking as an atheist...
I've read Comfort's You Can Lead an Atheist to Evidence, But You Can't Make Him Think, and I found it terrible. To quote a bit of my review, "The book is primarily made up of material from Comfort's website where he answers questions from atheists that troll his site. Presumably, Comfort has included the answers that he thinks redound most to his credit. The level of discourse on both sides is basically internet debate. So to the theists reading this, I well realize that Ray Comfort is not the best apologist for theism."
I've seen some of Vox Day's essays online, and they all seem to descend sooner or later into name-calling. So if you'd like to insult your partner, by all means give him Vox Day's book.
I haven't read the other books so far mentioned.
_____________________________
"My object in all arguments is not to make any preconceived opinion of mine seem right, but merely to discover and establish the truth, whatever the truth may be."
-- HP Lovecraft, letter to Robert E. Howard 7/27-28/34
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RE: A book for an atheist? - 9/11/2009 2:23:04 PM
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MrFribbles
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For younger (from 16 to 20-something) readers, I'd suggest Blue Like Jazz, by Donald Miller.
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-G. K. Chesterton
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RE: A book for an atheist? - 9/11/2009 7:10:08 PM
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GroupW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: pablos39
Lee Strobel's books - "A Case for Christ" and "A Case for the Real Jesus". My husband wasn't an atheist but an agnostic and these books really opened his eyes up and now he believes. Praise the Lord!!!! Start with A Case for Christ.
My wife has read those books. Generally, I think they're best for people who already count themselves as Christians. Some non-Christians may find them useful.
Bottom line - I don't believe books really are all that effective. Most books that defend the faith are convincing only to the faithful.
The most effective thing you can do is to be a friend and try to be Christ with skin.
Don't mean to pour cold water on your thread topic - just my experience so far.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: A book for an atheist? - 9/11/2009 11:31:34 PM
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lightbeamrider
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Basic Christianity by John Stott along with ...The Holiness of God by RC Sproul got me to my knees.
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RE: A book for an atheist? - 9/12/2009 11:34:09 AM
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tsnody2001
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I have to say that all of the books so far mentioned are good books in my opinion. But I would also have to agree with GroupW: these books are useful for increasing the faith that someone already has, but I don't think they would be very useful to an avowed atheist. Pray, pray, pray, and shine, shine, shine! Be the living Jesus that he has never experienced. Give him the clear, un-watered-down, true Gospel of Jesus Christ, and do not try to convince him with wise (in our own eyes) debates, or logic, for God's Word says "For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect" (1 Corinthians 1:17). The Apostle Paul said that the Gospel is foolishness to those who do not believe. Again, pray, pray, pray for him. This is just my opinion.
God bless you. I will pray for you and your friend.
P.S. Before everyone stones me, I am not saying that you (or anyone else) is Jesus. I am simply saying that we are His hands and feet here on earth until He returns. We are simply vessels of His love to a dying world.
< Message edited by tsnody2001 -- 9/12/2009 11:44:52 AM >
_____________________________
Until He Returns (Rev. 2:17),
Travis
During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. ~George Orwell
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RE: A book for an atheist? - 9/13/2009 10:15:20 PM
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menendez7
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Thank you for your insightful responses. I find your different suggestions and viewpoints helpful. I agree that one of the most powerful witnesses is to live the Christian life consistently rather than to use mere words. I have done this to the best of my ability since my colleague came to work in our department. The importance of my Christian faith is well known among my coworkers and my patients without my being "religious" about it. I am also aware that no person is debated into a saving faith. Often times an unbeliever is adamant about his position due more to personal moral preferences rather than honest intellectual reservations.
I have read some of the books suggested and I have to agree with one of the posters that these books would be more convincing to a believer than an unbeliever. After giving this situation considerable thought, this is the approach I will take. I believe that there is no single book on this topic that would be universally effective. Therefore, I have selected three books that if read sequentially could lead the unbeliever from atheism through Deism to Theism and finally a consideration of Christian theology. The first book is "There Is a God: How the World's Most Notorious Atheist Changed His Mind" written by Anthony Flew, British philosopher and renowned atheist for many decades. Even though Anthony Flew's current position is that of a generic Deism, it is an improvement over an intransigent atheism. The second book is "The Wonder of the World" by Roy Varghese. This book and its author were instrumental in helping Anthony Flew reconsider his belief in the existence of God. It would bring its reader to a position of Theism. The third book would be "I Don't Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist" by Norman Geisler and Frank Turek (thanks drmark). This final book would present the arguments supporting the Christian view of God. There were several reviews of this book by agnostics and atheists who, surprisingly, found the book helpful.
The bottom line is that it is the work of the Holy Spirit to draw a person to Christ. The most that we can do is to be faithful in our witness and consistent in our lives. We are just trying to sow a seed in faith. I'd be interested in hearing your feedback. And also please keep my colleague, David, in your prayers. Thank you.
< Message edited by menendez7 -- 9/13/2009 10:41:21 PM >
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RE: A book for an atheist? - 9/13/2009 10:34:21 PM
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menendez7
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Dear essentalsaltes,
Thank you for your candid remarks and willingness to post in this thread. It would be fascinating to get your assessment of former atheist Anthony Flew's book "There Is a God: How the World's Most Notorious Atheist Changed His Mind". I think it would be an opportunity for an interesting exchange of ideas.
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress. -- Joseph Joubert
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RE: A book for an atheist? - 9/14/2009 12:51:42 AM
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tsnody2001
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Menendez27, I know this may sound very simple, but maybe you should just give him (or her) a copy of the Bible to read. Just be honest with them and tell them to check it out and if they have any questions to do some of their own independent research to find answers. Because really, if one refuses to believe in the supernatural (God), then they are not going to be open to a book trying to convince them of the reality of the supernatural. From my personal experience, I had a small portion of faith in God about the size of a mustard seed (for lack of better words), and that didn't grow until I decided to plant it by doing what God requires of us for it to grow; namely hearing the true Gospel, repenting of sin, and believing. Just my humble opinion. I hope it helps.
_____________________________
Until He Returns (Rev. 2:17),
Travis
During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. ~George Orwell
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RE: A book for an atheist? - 9/14/2009 1:06:38 AM
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huangshan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: essentialsaltes
Speaking as an atheist...
I've read Comfort's You Can Lead an Atheist to Evidence, But You Can't Make Him Think, and I found it terrible. To quote a bit of my review, "The book is primarily made up of material from Comfort's website where he answers questions from atheists that troll his site. Presumably, Comfort has included the answers that he thinks redound most to his credit. The level of discourse on both sides is basically internet debate. So to the theists reading this, I well realize that Ray Comfort is not the best apologist for theism."
I've seen some of Vox Day's essays online, and they all seem to descend sooner or later into name-calling. So if you'd like to insult your partner, by all means give him Vox Day's book.
I haven't read the other books so far mentioned.
Yeah, I'm not an atheist but I'm familiar with pretty much everything that's been mentioned so far.
If you want to blind your colleague via having his eyes roll all the way back in his head, by all means give him any of the aformentioned books.
I would actually suggest Robert Wright's new book, The Evolution of God. It's not going to make a believer out of anyone, but it may soften the heart of a strident anti-theist.
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RE: A book for an atheist? - 9/14/2009 1:48:15 PM
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essentialsaltes
Posts: 243
Joined: 10/14/2007
From: Inglewood, CA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: menendez7
Dear essentalsaltes,
Thank you for your candid remarks and willingness to post in this thread. It would be fascinating to get your assessment of former atheist Anthony Flew's book "There Is a God: How the World's Most Notorious Atheist Changed His Mind". I think it would be an opportunity for an interesting exchange of ideas.
I may get to it someday.
_____________________________
"My object in all arguments is not to make any preconceived opinion of mine seem right, but merely to discover and establish the truth, whatever the truth may be."
-- HP Lovecraft, letter to Robert E. Howard 7/27-28/34
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RE: A book for an atheist? - 9/14/2009 11:50:00 PM
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menendez7
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Dear huangshan,
Thank you for your input. I try to look at the different resources suggested with an open mind. Regarding your suggestion of Robert Wright's book, The Evolution of God, I had some questions. One reviewer of the book on Amazon.com gave it five stars and commented "Wright argues the gods arose as illusions and that "the subsequent history of the idea of god is...the evolution of an illusion." This evolution points to the existence of a "divinity," he argues, even though this god is not one that most believers currently accept. As it evolved it has "moved closer to plausibility.""
If this is an accurate description of the main premise of the book then wouldn't it simply reinforce the atheist's preconception regarding the existence of God. The book's premise merely begs the question by assuming the non-existence of God and then explaining how man's wishful thinking gelled into an elaborate theology of an illusion. Shouldn't the book I am looking for concentrate more on the validity of the assumption of God's nonexistence?
_____________________________
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress. -- Joseph Joubert
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RE: A book for an atheist? - 9/15/2009 12:16:15 AM
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menendez7
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Dear essentalsaltes,
I admire your open mind. I'd be glad to purchase the book on Amazon.com and have them send it to whatever address you choose just to get your impressions. By the way, I like your signature quote.
_____________________________
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress. -- Joseph Joubert
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RE: A book for an atheist? - 9/15/2009 12:47:27 AM
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huangshan
Posts: 2309
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quote:
ORIGINAL: menendez7
Dear huangshan,
Thank you for your input. I try to look at the different resources suggested with an open mind. Regarding your suggestion of Robert Wright's book, The Evolution of God, I had some questions. One reviewer of the book on Amazon.com gave it five stars and commented "Wright argues the gods arose as illusions and that "the subsequent history of the idea of god is...the evolution of an illusion." This evolution points to the existence of a "divinity," he argues, even though this god is not one that most believers currently accept. As it evolved it has "moved closer to plausibility.""
If this is an accurate description of the main premise of the book then wouldn't it simply reinforce the atheist's preconception regarding the existence of God. The book's premise merely begs the question by assuming the non-existence of God and then explaining how man's wishful thinking gelled into an elaborate theology of an illusion. Shouldn't the book I am looking for concentrate more on the validity of the assumption of God's nonexistence?
Wright is, I think, a kind of deist. I have to admit he jolted my faith quite a bit with two of his last books, such that... I'm kind of a deist too, actually. I dunno. But he's not an atheist and he's definitely not in agreement with Richard Dawkins or Christopher Hitchens.
I gotta say, I don't think most people in the vein of hard-core atheism are likely to just flip. I'm sure there are any number of anecdotes out there that will tell me otherwise, but I think a more reasonable and likely approach is an that goes after a person on his own terms, or at least meets him halfway.
Wright's ultimate conclusion is that the popular idea of God is substantively incorrect (again, he's a deist), but that it actually is reflective of a higher truth (again, he's a deist!). But I don't think he'd capitalize the 'T' in truth (deist).
I am advocating the "baby steps" approach. Again, The Evolution of God isn't going to make a believer out of anyone, but it's a book that's firmly between atheism and non-deistic theism, which makes it easy and interesting to approach.
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RE: A book for an atheist? - 9/15/2009 8:08:48 AM
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drmark
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quote:
I gotta say, I don't think most people in the vein of hard-core atheism are likely to just flip. Personally, I'd say most "hard-core atheists" are either psychotic or lying... 
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: A book for an atheist? - 9/15/2009 12:07:11 PM
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abraxas
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You're joking, right?
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RE: A book for an atheist? - 9/15/2009 12:43:57 PM
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essentialsaltes
Posts: 243
Joined: 10/14/2007
From: Inglewood, CA
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: menendez7
Dear essentalsaltes,
I admire your open mind. I'd be glad to purchase the book on Amazon.com and have them send it to whatever address you choose just to get your impressions. By the way, I like your signature quote.
Yes, I noticed that your own sig quote is very close in spirit to mine!
Ordinarily, I might beg off with a polite refusal, but as it happens, yesterday was my 40th birthday. So I will gratefully accept your generous offer.
In the interest of making my biases clear, I remember shortly after that book came out that there was quite a to-do in the NY Times. The upshot is that Flew did not write the book, but he says it accurately reflects his thinking. I have no reason to doubt his word, but it makes it less of an autobiography than a biography (with, I'm sure, the assistance of the subject). Nevertheless, I think I can read and evaluate the book on its own merits.
If you're still interested in buying me a birthday present, I promise in return to read it and review it publicly. I can't do so here, because it looks like the book focuses on an area of human endeavor that I am forbidden from discussing in this forum. But I will be sure that I private message you a link to my journal/blog.
With all that said, you can use my Amazon wishlist, or if you'd prefer, I can PM you my street address.
_____________________________
"My object in all arguments is not to make any preconceived opinion of mine seem right, but merely to discover and establish the truth, whatever the truth may be."
-- HP Lovecraft, letter to Robert E. Howard 7/27-28/34
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RE: A book for an atheist? - 9/15/2009 5:17:57 PM
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drmark
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quote:
If that's what you truly believe, it's probably not beyond the pale to make similar assumptions about you. Some of you need a refresher on Romans 1:18-19!
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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